K.U.E.L. INSTRUCTORS
2020
特別対談企画②
Mr.Fasca × Mr.Miller
本文：英語版
はじめに
本企画は現役生とオープンジャッジの接点、関わる機会が極めて少ないことを疑問視したのがきっかけで企画しました。本企画では、ジャッジ方がスピーチに何を求めていて、どう考えていらっしゃるのかを対談形式でインタビューを行っています。これを読んだ方は是非、自分のスピーチに存分に活かしていただきたいです。
第二弾である今回はネイティブジャッジを代表するこの二人！Mr. Chad Fasca & Mr. Mathew Miller さんによる特別なご対談です！実は同じ大会ではあまり顔合わせしたことがないお二人。ネイティブ目線でESSスピーチをどう見ているのでしょうか。今回も必見です！！！
※英語版ではなるべくインタビュー内容や雰囲気をそのままお伝えできるように編集してあります。日本語版も合わせてご覧ください。
PROFILE
Mathew Miller 様
ご趣味 料理して食べること
好きな食べ物
刺身、ピザ（混ぜないよ！）
Chad Fasca 様
好きな食べ物
キムチ、ピーナッツバター
（今のところは混ぜてはない）
×
記事の最後ではお二人のおすすめスピーチも掲載させて頂いていますので必見です！！
インタビュー本文
Q: Please tell me about your first judging experience and when you started judging these E.S.S. speech contests; basically, the beginning parts of your journey.
Fasca: Many parts of the journey are a little hard for me to recall. But I think that it was in 2012 that I judged my first speech contest, but actually, it wasn't until I think 2014 that I started to keep recording in my journal of the contests that I had judged. So, I don't think that's too far back for me to recall the actual contests itself. I'm not sure if it was either Sophia or Hosei University's contest – probably one of those two. I know that I was nervous for the first time. I was incredibly worried about the comments at the end. I tried to make something that would appreciate the work that all of the contestants put in. Because I wanted to give them something of value that they could use in the future as they continued their speaking career.
----I see, thank you so much for sharing. Okay, Mr. Miller, please.
Miller: So, yeah! Like Chad, I can't remember that far back, but I was trying to think...I know that my first E.S.S. speech contest was the Ogawa Cup at T.U.F.S. (Tokyo University of Foreign Studies). And I was trying to remember, how long ago that was – I think it was probably 2009 or 2010, so about ten years ago. And after that, I judged at the Umeko Cup at Tsuda University. After that, I started doing a lot, so I can't remember that much. But I was teaching at those schools, so those were the first ones. You know, I didn't have any experience in public speaking. So, I didn't feel qualified to be a judge of somebody doing something I can't do. After I did it a couple of times, I got addicted to it, and kind of around the same time, I had given two presentation courses. So, you know, I started researching how to do presentations and started learning from these E.S.S. members about the contest and giving a good presentation. So, I feel like I've learned a lot from being a judge, though. I'm still not an expert, but, yeah!
Q: That's great to hear. No, I feel that everyone needs to keep refining their public speaking skills regardless of how long we have judged. Thank you for sharing. Moving on, how many E.S.S. speech contests have you guys judged so far?
Fasca: Well, in my case, I tried just to estimate it, but I do about six to eight per year, as a final judge. Then, I guess that works up to like over fifty contests. But that's just a rough estimate.
----Alright, what about you, Mr. Miller?
Miller: Yeah, who knows. I was trying to estimate as well, I thought, maybe around 30? When I first started, I only did two or three a year, but recently I've been doing four or even five a year. Um, I'm kind of surprised, you know, Chad and I only met for the first-time last year. And I don't even remember which contest that was. But uh, do you remember, Chad?
Fasca: Was it Hosei's contest?
Miller: It might have been! It could have been, yeah. Yeah, but I'm surprised since we do so many contests and missed each other.
Q: Mmm. I see, umm, alright. I have one more question, to begin with. But what do you think about online speech contests? What is your opinion about it?
Fasca: Uh, that is a difficult question, haha. Um, I will say this: I've recently seen online debates and online debates have worked because you know, ultimately, it's about the communication of information and ideas. But, then again, that's debate. I feel that speech is a little different because the interaction between the speaker and audience is essential since we feed off each other. I mean, the potential is undoubtedly there for online contests because through like Zoom, you can have like hundreds of people join. Um, and to witness the speeches. The only downside is that it's hard to duplicate the feeling of being upon the stage and uh, you know, feeling the sort of moment and space. Because you're probably going to be doing it from your home, and then, I guess, the magnitude of the experience might end up being lost just a little bit. So, that might make the contest intimate, and you might feel more comfortable and confident. And therefore, you might be able to do a much better job, and you can give your speech you want to share because you won't be overwhelmed by the experience.
----You have a point there. What do you think about the whole online judging, Mr. Miller?
Miller: Um, I agree with every single thing that Chad said, and um, yeah. I've never done it before, so I don't know, but teaching classes online – there were many, um, surprises, you know. Things that I couldn't have predicted. But as long as we are aware of that, we can go with the flow with how things work. The worst thing about it is the feeling of being upon the stage and in front of many people. Or even being in the audience and seeing someone on stage. There is something about that atmosphere that is so wonderful. I think that's going to be lost, and that's too bad. But it's better than nothing – I'd instead do this on Zoom than have nothing.
Q: Definitely. It is undoubtedly better than having nothing. Um, so, on behalf of the K.U.E.L. Speech Instructors Team, we are debating whether or not to make the EAST JAPAN Cup and J.U.E.L. (the two major competitions that connect East Japan and West Japan) to be all online. What do you think about that? Do you think we should make those major competitions all online?
Fasca: Hmm, I mean, if students could gather on campus who are in the same university, then you could do exactly like what you just said (Instagram live, etc.), and also have them do it in front of their own E.S.S. audience. So, then that way, they could still have the experience of delivering their speech in front of an audience. But at the same time, it would lower the risk of people traveling from different areas. It all depends, and I hope that the numbers are going down, but I feel they are inching back up again.
Q: Anyway, what have you been doing during your quarantine days?
Miller: Haha, just teaching and going to lots of Zoom meetings! My department loves having Zoom meetings. I think we have more meetings than we did before COVID-19. I feel that I'm on Zoom all the time.
What about you, Mr. Fasca? Anything new that has been happening to you?
Fasca: I've spent a lot more time with my kids.
Miller: That's great!
Fasca: It cuts both ways. It's great because I really enjoy spending time with my kids, but then also, during teaching classes, sometimes I have to break up fights between my two boys. Sometimes, I am half teaching and half refereeing. I mean, the nice thing is that meals – we rarely were able to share meals, because I was usually out all day and when I would get back home, it would be so late. But now, we've shared a lot of meals. We have a lot more discussion at the dinner tables. As a family, it's more beneficial and stressful because you are on top of each other all the time. For young people, the inability to go out and interact with their peers is a bit of a challenge. My boys have gotten loopy when you can tell that they are starting to go crazy. In our case, every family approaches the situation differently. I've seen some who are more comfortable having their kids just playing at a playground. But in our case, we are more cautious, so we generally were always with our kids. So, they don't go anywhere without us, except recently, they have been going back to school. Then, it's been a bit hard, harder than us, because they need that interaction. We've had it – we are comfortable with solitude and being on our own, being in our thoughts and self. It's much more challenging for small children – they need to bounce off of other people and have their ideas and speeches and questions/thoughts back and forth. So, that's been challenging. I would agree with Matthew that you can't cover the same amount of material with teaching for me. And also, not everyone wants to appear on camera. On camera, it's more intimate than being in a regular classroom. They can shut off their camera, so I often speak to a bunch of icons, which feels a bit strange.
It is helpful for them to do so in some cases since they don't feel that same kind of pressure. For some students, online classes have been a blessing because they don't have to worry so much about their appearance, and if they're shyer, they have that comfort. You can see the more reticent ones being able to participate more than usual.
Miller: What I feel is that I'm getting to know my students better in a certain way. For example, they have to hand in everything by email, and will you know, I'll write them back; say that I got their homework and give them my thanks. So, I feel that I'm having a lot more conversations with them, in a sense. But the bad thing is that it is difficult to differentiate between similar names when it comes to emails. So, I'm having these great conversations online, and I'm like hmm…which Rina is this? Because I have like four Rina's in one class. So, whereas to face-to-face, I learn about them much more quickly, so it's kind of weird. I talk to them more online rather than face-to-face.
----I guess it is what it is.
Miller: Yep, it is what it is, haha!
Q: Any new hobbies that you have been discovering?
Miller: I have gotten into baking bread for about a month, and now I'm sick of bread. How about you, Chad?
Fasca: I've been uh, cooking a little bit more. My oldest son loves cooking, so sometimes we will cook together. I would be his sous chef, and I would be cleaning up after him – he gets all the fun stuff.
Fasca: For my birthday, we had a steak-making battle. So, we each cooked and prepared steak, and we had a tasting session. He easily won, so, yeah.
Miller: Ohhhh...(laughs)
Fasca: I'm learning as I go, haha. I wasn't much of a cook before, but I have doubled my repertoire.
Q: Looking back on your long judging career, what kind of things have changed throughout the years. I mean, it can be anything from the variety of speech topics to the speakers' overall level.
Fasca: Alright, I'll go first. I feel that the overall quality of the writing in speaking has improved within each year. So, like, on just the base level, the speakers' English ability seems to be going up. It's part of the education system and things – the pronunciation and intonation – those things have improved significantly compared to a decade ago. I also the quality of the writing has improved. The delivery is better too. The speakers are pacing their speeches better; their structuring and ideas are better presented in the speeches. In terms of content, I feel like content-wise, we have several tracks that have been there over the last ten years and remained. I don't think that we changed the content very much of the speeches.
----Alright. Let's hear from you, Mr. Miller!
Miller: Yes, I've noticed quite similar things, but I remember when I first started judging these contests, there were all these very formal and serious speeches, which wasn't a bad thing. But maybe the bad part was that they were very predictable. I've noticed, however, is the slow but steady growth of the contests being more casual and fun. It is a lot more creative, and I see speakers willing to experiment a little bit. They are not afraid to do something different, to see if it works. And that's what I like – perhaps it's the E.S.S. atmosphere that encourages these speakers to try new things. I don't know where it's coming from, but I like it better than the speech contests from 10 years ago. I'm not saying that they were terrible back then. Still, I enjoy the speakers having the opportunity to try new things right now and show their creativity. And I'd like to see more of that.
Q: Do you think that these E.S.S. speeches are overly structured? Or do we have to mold ourselves into those judging criteria sheets?
Fasca: In my case, I would say that you shouldn't make your speech based on the judging sheets. You make the speech you want to make, and you know, to come from the heart, and it should be something that expresses yourself and your engagement with the language. And you have to let your words fall into place as you speak. Your speech may or may not match the judging criteria. But at the end of the day, you have to be satisfied with the speech you made. If you try to do it from the judging sheet criteria, you will lose the real you, and that is going to show through When you're giving your speech.
Fasca: I feel like for contests; I wouldn't mind if the contests paired back some of the judging criteria. As a judge, I want to enjoy the experience of the speech and evaluate the sort of the whole package. And sometimes, I feel like the speakers and myself are restricted by what's on the page. I mean, I have to go through so much judging criteria while listening to each speaker, and then, keeping up with everything is sometimes very difficult. Sometimes, I want to give you credit for something you've done in your speech, but it's not on the criteria. So, then there's no way for me to say like, wow! Your speech was moving, or it had this figurative language that I felt like I was connected to. Still, there was no place for me to write in my additional criteria to say that this speech was outstanding, because of this! It's so tricky because if you make the requirements too loose, it becomes too hard to differentiate between the speakers. But sometimes, it is also rigorous for me, like figure skating. And figure skating is where it seems so strictly judged that it's about hitting the targets as you said earlier, not just the overall picture.
Miller: I agree with Chad's comments on the scoring sheets. Sometimes, there are so many criteria that I can't keep up with. And it does distract me from listening to the actual speech. But I was going to say that I get so many questions from speakers at the reception about following the E.S.S. speech method. I thought a lot about it because at first, I don't know, I was not too fond of that method, and I was against it. I wanted students to be free. But as I thought about me more, that method is fantastic. It's a great base to base your speech on. And so, for beginners, it is excellent for them to do their first speech. But after their first speech, you need to build on that and make it a more different and better. And like how I've been seeing, experimenting off that base and seeing what works for them is good. Because our speakers need to grow and change, always doing that. I think the problem is that when speakers use that same formula still, over and over again.
Miller: (roars with laughter) But many good speakers like yourself, Ellie, have pushed their presentation skills and the way they present their speech. I see like you and many other speakers have their speech predictable to an extent. But the way you present it is new each time. So, I think you guys do a great job in that respect.
Q: Well, thank you for that. Okay, let's move on. I think this will be a challenging question, without being biased, but please kindly tell me which contest made a lasting impression for you.
Miller: Um, hmm...you know, I'm trying to think...probably the most impressive contests are where there is lots of support given to the speakers by the E.S.S. staff. And also, by the audience, like their friends and other E.S.S. members from other universities who come to watch. And sometimes when their families come – that's when I feel most impressed. Because, you know, any contest you go to, you will be impressed by the speakers, and I'm often impressed by how they do the theme of the contest. Also, the great food that they serve during the receptions. There is always this something that impresses me, but yeah. I can't narrow it down to one particular contest I've been to. Still, when I see other people supporting each other, I feel that that is what E.S.S. speech contests are all about. Okay, your turn, Chad.
Fasca: Uh, I don't want to play favorites, so I want to start with the diplomatic approach first. I agree with Matthew regarding how each speaker brings their unique flavor to the table. What's impressive about all these contests is that there are different aspects. Not every contest has its complete package necessarily. Still, all of them have things like unique lobby displays I've seen in many contests like where you could take your Instagram photos. I know I have three or four pictures with my oldest son. When he came along to the speech contests, and two of us take our little sweetheart photos. And um, or I forget the contest – maybe it was the J.U.E.L. Cup this year. They had the outside display (having the electronic set-up). They had all of the interactive message-writing boards on the shards of a jewel, and you could paste it there. I think that is great for the contest organizers doing that.
Other contests have the playful banter between the two MC's. My problem is that if I had known that I would be interviewed like this, I would have taken notes during each speech contest that I had judged for. Some contests like Waseda have the audience asking questions, which is very interesting because we are typically the questioners or have an official questioner. But in that case, the judges still question the speakers, but then the audience does. Like Kubota-san, he has been doing that for years, joining the audience as a ringer, asking thought-provoking questions to the speakers. Sometimes, the audience's questions are better than the questions that i ask as a judge. So, I am always so inspired.
----The Waseda trophy, right?
Fasca: Yep. When it comes down to contests that leave a lasting impression on us, I have to give props to the William's Cup.
Fasca: I mean, but here's what I will say: The William's Cup has a tremendous advantage because they have like 200 or 300 E.S.S. members. So, it's hard to measure up the contests against each other because they all are unique and exciting. But in the William's Cup, the follow through is very impressive. The theme carried over with the on-stage performances, E.S.S. members, and you know, and how each speaker is brought up as the star as the show, is pretty impressive. So, I have to give so much respect as to the amount of effort they put in.
Q: Moving on from the contests, please tell me your favorite speakers and speeches.
Miller: Oh, this is going to be hard, haha! But maybe the first impressive speech that I heard must have been eight, nine, ten years ago? This person stood up and started giving her speech. Her English was not very good, so I was like, oh no, what is she doing here at the beginning of her speech? But this person took control of the stage and grabbed the audience and did not let go. And through her presentation skills despite her, you know, mediocre English, she won the contest and got the audience prize. And what that showed me was that, at least as a judge – like I was just surprised, realizing that there is so much more to give a speech, as it was not just about your English skills. I took off points for misused vocabulary like an English teacher, but that speaker taught me a lesson as a judge. There is a lot more to look at because you can have a fantastic speech even if your English-speaking skills are not that good. Many speakers come up to me and say that their English is not so good as so and so, so I tell them this: Be better than them in something else. But anyway, that was kind of the first awe-inspiring speech that I ever saw. And unfortunately, I don't remember that person's name, but yeah.
----Interesting. Any other speakers – recent speakers that caught your attention?
Fasca: Well, I mean, it is a difficult question, and I guess what I would say first is that I love and enjoy all the speakers and what they could offer. The speakers especially come to multiple contests, and each time they bring this speech, that keeps getting refined. That sort of craftsmanship is attractive to me. I also appreciate aspects of particular speakers. So, like, for me, Nishimura-san, I appreciate his showmanship. And in your case, Mikawa-san, I appreciate your lyricism like the way you write. You raise the vocabulary level of everyone in the audience, and you challenge us as listeners. I genuinely feel that you love the language itself so much. Ueki-san was another one. She had such a charming enthusiasm and personality. So I don't know if students are still in school, but if you remember, Hirasawa-san...
----Anju Hirasawa-san?
Fasca: Oh, her! She was so earnest in all of her speeches. Kubota-san was a master too. Whenever I hear him speak, he always has a command of the stage. He recently introduces him as an office worker, but it most certainly doesn't capture what he truly is. He should present himself as a top-level executive in the making or something like that. Like that's how I feel whenever he's on stage. Who else? Oh, that's right. Ueda-san. Ueda-san has a beautiful smile, and so she always brings this warmth to her when she speaks. And then, we have Mark-Yoshida-san. He's just so charismatic, you know.
----Yes, for sure.
Fasca: I have to say that I have a man-crush on him, so.
Miller: Ooooh!!!
Fasca: Yeah, Mark-Gio-Yoshida-san. Mmm. (laughs). And I almost forgot, Ray-san.
Fasca: He's for sure another one. He is another one that has that charming smile on stage, and the bubbly enthusiasm brings joy to everyone. I remember his speech was about his love about anime and how it brought him to Japan.
----That's right. I remember his "Zero to Hero" speech as well.
Fasca and Miller: Yes!
Q: So, in that sense, I think those are the things that you are looking for in E.S.S. speeches. The passion that speakers convey; the confidence that they exude, and obviously, the technical components cannot be forgotten. And the amount of connection that they can establish with the audience is essential. But what are the other specific things that you look for in speeches? like what kind of speech is a "winning speech?"
Miller: Haha! Hmm, well, I think two important things that I specifically look for are that if the speaker can connect with me. Because then, at the end of the speech, I can know that person a bit more on a personal level. Now, I'm also looking for variety within a speech. So, what I want to see is a variety of everything, like facial expressions. I often see people giving their entire speech with a big smile plastered on their face, but that's not giving us variety. This goes the same for body movements, gestures, the volume of voice, and the intonation – everything needs to vary to it. For the writing, I would also have heard speeches where speakers are forcing themself to do various gestures, intonations, and whatever. So, it has to be natural, which comes from lots of practice. Next, I look for is unique topics. This is something that I rarely see but, like a unique way of organizing the speech. We often see the E.S.S. formula or some version of it. So, on the rare occasion that I see a uniquely organized speech, I'm very impressed. And what else? Sometimes, the source they obtained through their research, like a survey, impresses me since it shows me that they took the initiative. And I guess the way they present. So, in a nutshell, variety and unique are the two things that will impress me the most.
----I guess that separates first and second place.
Miller: Yeah. Because 99% of the speeches that we see, everybody's English is generally good. Everyone's presentation skills are pretty well-refined, so yeah. It comes down to the most unique, original speech. That's how we figure out who's going to be the winner or not.
----So, a speech that would make you ponder about it for a long time.
Miller: Yes, a speech that would make you think about their given topic after the speech contest.
----Or, just a speech that would resonate with you as a human being.
Miller: Yes, my favorite speeches are the ones wherein the end, I felt that I had a conversation with them – like I know who they are and what they're passions are. Those are the kind of speeches I love.
Q: Do you think that E.S.S. organizers should adopt a more Toastmasters kind of judging criteria to liberate the speakers?
Fasca: That's a good question. Perhaps it all depends on how much freedom you want to give. The audience judges judging speech contests in Toastmasters speech contests. So people are voting; therefore, there is a combined total. That would be a different structure or system, and I haven't looked at the toastmasters judging criteria in a while, so I don't know. I know it's more simplified versus what is in a speech contest now. Maybe something that would be in the middle between the two. When I think of judging criteria, there is usually a section for content with four or five sub-criteria, and then there's also written English. Then, English delivery. Each of those is generally divided up, so the English have pronunciation, intonation, and articulation. There's also a rate and stress and many more. So, suppose you went through the criteria and said that you could only have three for content, two or one for written English, and two for delivery. What's important is what we want to capture or want to give the judges to define. I don't know if I can help. I'm kind of rambling there, so I'll let Matthew clean up the answer there.
Miller: I don't know either, haha! I'm unfamiliar with how Toastmasters judges contests, but it goes back to what Chad and I talked about earlier. You know, a simplified version of the E.S.S. judging sheet would be great. Um, not too general, but surely a little more because I find myself wondering. And I just spend too much time debating whether or not I should give how many points to stress, as opposed to intonation. Or you know, I'm like how different they are and how important they are. Then, time is up, so. But i think what we need to do is think about what is important to us, or how critical is content, accuracy, and presentation skills. Are all three equal equally as important? or should we grade the content a little more? Anyhow, I think it's worth thinking about this and change it for the better good.
Fasca: I would also add that what would be good it that people who are a part of the K.U.E.L. Speech Instructors can get together. Because you are the experienced members of E.S.S. and most of you guys are the ones who had stood out as speakers. To gather together and come up with what you think is like base criteria is pivotal. So, establish this kind of standard criteria that all E.S.S. institutions can adopt. Of course, if your club wants to change something or emphasize something, it's up to you. But, if we have this sort of shared criteria that we are working on, it might feel fairer across contests.
Miller: I agree.
Q: For my last question. I know we're in this crazy pandemic. And it is a confusing time for all of us. But to encourage those speakers who have lost their will to write speeches, would you please encourage them by giving them some advice regarding speech-making? Thank you.
Fasca: Public speaking – it is an age-old craft that dates back not just centuries but millennia. So, you are engaged in a noble art and pursuit. And this is a minor roadblock in the way. Still, by engaging in this speech activity, you are preparing yourself for life. So, I feel that it is valid no matter what circumstances there are. As a speaker, if you have something you care about, and it comes from your heart, nothing should stand in your way. Because that is what we are looking for in speeches. If anything, the coronavirus should give you a more sense of urgency and passion for you to convey your thoughts. Current times give you a chance to rise as a speaker and find ways to get your words out for people to hear. And we live in a fantastic period, in which you know, the coronavirus has shut down so much. Still, it hasn't shut down our ability to communicate. We just have to find other means to do it. Um, and in a way, it could challenge us to forge new pathways. So, use this as an opportunity to reinvent yourself as a speaker and reinvent speech contests. You can look at it as an opportunity, not an obstacle.
----Right, many people are so pessimistic in the speech world, like they say that they can't show my speeches on the stage and to the crowd, but what if those who are more reticent can shine even more? I mean, there is that.
Fasca: There is one more thing that we can do. We can have people during the elimination rounds to capture their speeches on video and send it to us that way. There are so many platforms out there to use to make speech contests new in the new era.
Miller: You mentioned how some people are so unmotivated, which is something so understandable. But I just wanted to say to all the speechwriters out there: If you feel so unmotivated, I encourage you to help someone else do their speech. I think an excellent way to get back your motivation is by helping others. And instead of doing nothing, you are helping someone, so you can help them reach their goals. In return, you can get your motivation back. That's what I'd like to say.
Miller: If we ever can get to go outside again, I recommend all of us to go to other speech contests, and I don't mean just E.S.S. speech contests. But I've been to one of my Japanese friends gave a speech in Korean (he studies Korean) and I went and watched that. I got so many ideas, you know, how they do their Korean speeches differently from E.S.S. speeches. Suginami-ku has a Japanese speech contest every year, and I've been to that twice, and I got so many ideas there as well. One of the ideas that I got from the speakers was talking about this exotic dance. And she was dancing on the stage while talking. And she brought someone else onto the stage too. Anyways, I encourage students to go to other speech contests!
----Great. Well, thank you so much for your raw opinions.
インタビュアー感想（三川エリー）
ミラーさんとファスカさんの私生活を垣間見ることができたのはもちろん、(ネイティブジャッジの視点からすると)現在のESSスピーチ界にどのような変化が必要なのかが明らかになったのでインストの私にとっても、非常に勉強になりましたし、このようなインタビュー企画を設けてくれた健に感謝しかないです。
【特典】お二人のおすすめスピーチ
Mr. Chad Fasca
“The Danger of A Single Story” （Ted Talk by Adichie）
Mr. Mathew Miller
“Power of Persuasion” (Fred Roger)